Welsh Journals

June, 1872. BYE-GONES. 63 to them by Welsh poets. Not a few of them have interesting and curious legends connected with them. Would that such legends and allusions could be collected and printed ! The Rev. D. Silvan Evans has written in the Montg. Coll. (vol. iv., p. 345) a short account of these streams, giving their locality, and generally the name of the water into which they fall. Montgomeryshire may safely challenge any other county to match it in respect of the number or importance of its rivers.—U. QUERIES. COL. JONES, THE REGICIDE.— In Notes and Queries, May 25, appears the following query from America:— Had Col. John Jones, the regicide, a wife prior to his marriage to Roger Whetstone's widow, Cromwell's sister I If so, who was she ? and when and where did she die ? It is said he had three sonf,—William, who came to New England with Whalley and Goffe ; John, from whom descended Sir William Jones of India ; and Morgan, grandfather of Rev. William Janes of Nayland. De any records or proofs exist to verify or falsify this statement ? In the State Paper Office, among Papers of time of Charles II., Domestic, 1660-1, vol. xxv., No. 49, is a petition hy Sir Thomas Whetstone, in which some allusion is made to his having petitioned for possession of the estate of his stepfather, Col. John Jones. What are the exact contencs and statements of this petition? It is inferred the petition for the estate was denied. Was it because Colonel Jones left lawful issue by his first wife, who were not debarred of the estate by reason of their father's attainder?—John J. Latting, 64, Madison Avenue, New York, U.S.A. Are we to understand that Sir William and the other Joneses mentioned were descended from Cromwell's daughter?—N. W. S. THE SITE OF THE BATTLE OF CAMLAN. - A work, entitled Cymru, purporting to be a historical, topographical, and V lographical dictionary of Wales is now in the course of publicatii n in the Welsh language. The pretensions claimed for it by its editor are high, but its merits fall very far short of them, a considerable propor¬ tion of the matter being simply a translation of articles published some forty years ago in Lewis's Topographical Dictionary. But my purpose is not to discuss the merits of the work, but to call the attention of those of bur mem¬ bers who live on the borders of Merionethshire and Mont¬ gomeryshire to a suggestion of the writer of the article on " Arthur," contained in the following paragraph :— "Some place Camlan at Kirkby Lonsdale, Westmoreland; others place it near Camelford, on the banks of the Camel or Alan, which according to Camden, was formerly called Cam- blam. But we are strongly inclined to the opinion that the battle was fought near Aberangell, in the county of Mont¬ gomery. In that locality there are places which bear the fol¬ lowing names even to the present day:—Camlan, Maes Camlan, Bron Camlan, Pont-y-Cleifion, Brithdir Coch, together with many others, which prove this neighbourhood to have been the scene of some special conflict. And as there is nothing in the narrative to favour either the north or Cornwall, nor aught which indicates Camlan to be a river, and because it is said that Medrod went to claim assistance from the English, the Picts and the Scots, it is natural to suppose that these allies met to¬ gether somewhere in the centre of England, and marched west¬ ward into Wales; and that Arthur and his men met them in tne pass between the counties of Montgomery and Merioneth: and that upon this spot, which is known as Maes Camlan, Ar¬ thur received his mortal wound. However, we throw out this nf¥£wVwTihatlt 1S ?orth> beinS wholly satisfied that more ™£ +£ .battles were fought within the limits of the Princi¬ pality than is generally supposed." Of late years the subject of Arthurian localities has re¬ ceived considerable attention. Messrs Haigh, Skene, and J. btuart Glennie, have discussed the subject very fully, ihe two latter have, m their different works, given their reasons for selecting the south of Scotland as the scene of Arthurs exploits. It appears that the Merionethshire locality has not escaped the notice of Mr Glennie; but he merely alludes to it in the following sentence (the italics are mine): —" In Merionethshire there is a river with the Arthurian name Camlan flovring into the Eden I" (Ar¬ thurian Localities, p. 8.) Mr Haigh follows Geoffrey of Monmouth in placing the scene of the battle in Cornwall (Conquestgf Britain by the Saxons, pp. 337-339) ; but Mr Skene advocates the claims of Camelon, on the Carron, near Falkirk, to be regarded as the Camlan of Arthur (Four Ancient Books of Wales, i., pp. 59-60); and Mr Glennie merely treads in his footsteps.—(Arthurian Locali¬ ties, pp. 44-5. Do the topographical names of the district afford any additional evidence in confirmation of the suggestion con¬ tained in the extract from Cymru ? There is a rectangular camp, called Llys Arthur, on the western borders of Car¬ diganshire, not far from Aberystwyth. Can any member furnish any particulars regarding it ?—-H. (in Arch : Cam :). REPLIES. CASTELL CROGEN (O.A., May 15, 1872 .—It is to be presumed that a book, having as its title A Memoir of Chirk Castle, "From Original Manuscripts," would give the information required ; but all that the work con¬ tains of the early history of the old castle, is contained in the following sentence:—"The present Chirk Castle i erected on the site of an Ancient Fortress, called by the Welsh ' Castell Crogen,' which fortress is supposed to have been built between the years 1011 and 1013." And then the account of the Battle of Crogen is quoted from Powel, p. 221. The ' Original Manuscripts' all relate to the Myddelton Family. This Memoir was published in 1859 by Hugh Roberts, Chester.—N.W.S. If the ancient name of Chirk Castle was Castell Crogen, it is not to be confounded with Crogen in the Dee. But there is a Crogenidan on the Ceiriog, above Chirk, which is mostly called Crogen. Is this Crogen a township? Ifso.it may solve the question why it was called by the above name. I think H.W.L. is wrong when he states that ruins of a castell are still to be seen at Crogen on the Dee. There is a mound or domen to be seen there, but it bears no greater resemblance to a castle than "Y Domen," Bala. H.W.L. is in error again about Crogen, for -it is not in Llandrillo Edeirnion, but in Llandderfel, one of the five parishes of Penthyn. — IVANHOE. BARON OWEN, OF LLWYN (O.A. Mar. 27, April 24,1872).—I am inclined to doubt the accuracy of the information supplied to you on this subject. Baron Owen was born at Dolserau. He was the proprietor of Dolserau, and the greatest part of Dolgelley as it then stood. He owned the place where Fronheulog now stands, and Tymawr in Dolgelley (called Scibor fawry Barwn in the title deeds of some centuries old), so he must have owned all that part of the town down to the Lion Hotel. The Dolserau family- trace their pedigree from a period previous to the Baron, and what is extraordinary, for nearly four hundred years the property descended from father to son, their names being, respectively, Humphrey and Robert Owen, alternately. The last son of the last Humphrey died in 1826, after selling the estate to his cousin, one of the Edwardses, of Great Ness, in the county of Salop. The Baron was murdered, as stated, and I believe some of the descendants of the clan oiled Gwilliaid exist to this day. The Baron could not have been poor when he was the proprietor of Dolserau : it was then a much larger estate than it is now. I always thought Cwrt Plas yn Dre was occupied by Own Glyndwr as a Court of Parliament house, and not by Baron Owen.—E.H. WAS OWEN BROGYNTYN LORD OF EDEIR¬ NION? (O.A, Feb. 7, 21, Mar. 13, 20, Ap. 3, 17, 24, May 1, 8, 22.)—I may perhaps be permitted a few closing